Paige Tamlyn, HR Generalist at Xenium HR, provides a first-hand look at the differences between in-house HR professionals and external HR consultants, told from her own perspective as someone with a hybrid HR role as an in-house HR Generalist for a 100-person construction company two days a week and as an HR consultant three days a week at Xenium HR.
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Brandon Laws: In today’s episode, I bring in Paige Tamlyn. She is a Xenium employee, one of our HR Generalists here. We’ve had her on the podcast before. We talked about millennials and that was a great episode. That was probably a year or so ago.
So go check that one out if you haven’t heard that with Paige. Paige has a very unique role at Xenium. Actually, she’s – I believe the only one of her kind. She has a role as an HR Generalist, consultant for Xenium, works with a lot of different clients, employee relations and projects and things of that nature.
Then recently, probably six months ago, she decided to go onsite at one of our client locations for a couple days a week. So she has a unique hybrid role where she’s working a couple of days a week internally, really immersed in their culture and their needs on a day to day basis, and then she steps aside and works with many other businesses across different industries in more of a consultant role.
I thought she had a really unique perspective. I wanted to talk about that on the podcast and give you perspective, pros and cons to both roles and hopefully you find some value in this conversation on what Paige has to say. We just talk about what the future of the HR department is. So I think you’re going to really enjoy this episode. Paige is a lot of fun and I think you’re really going to love it. Enjoy.
Brandon Laws: Paige Tamlyn, what’s up?
Paige Tamlyn: Brandon, what’s going on, man?
Brandon Laws: It is good to have you on the podcast.
Paige Tamlyn: Nice to be back.
Brandon Laws: It has been a little while, right?
Paige Tamlyn: It has been a little while. I was thinking about that this morning. I was like, “I think it has been over a year since I’ve been on here.”
Brandon Laws: The last topic we did was on millennials, if I remember right.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, recruiting millennials.
Brandon Laws: Yeah, and that’s still a hot topic and we could probably revisit that another time.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: But you’ve got one of the most interesting roles at Xenium. In fact I think you’re the only one of your kind.
Paige Tamlyn: I am the only one of my kind.
Brandon Laws: So I know what your role is. But I mean we’re going to get into the details of it. Why don’t you just broadly tell some of the listeners what your role is all about?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, for sure. This isn’t a normal role for us. It was somewhat of a unique request. So I work two days a week out at the client doing basically internal HR for them, but what we consider external HR, and I work for them two days a week as an onsite through the Xenium onsite model. And then three days a week, I spend here as an HR Generalist.
Brandon Laws: But you get some variety in your day, in other words.
Paige Tamlyn: Absolutely, yeah.
Brandon Laws: And I think for a lot of people, wrapping their head around the consultant model where you have a ton of clients and different industries, working with different people all the time and adapting to different cultures. But then you’ve got this other side where it’s like you’re working for one client for multiple days and you have to immerse yourself in their culture and you’re part of their team, right? So how is that dynamic going between being part of their culture half the time and then being part of the Xenium culture half the time? Is that hard to adapt?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, it was an adjustment, I would say, for the first couple of months. I’ve actually just been there since January of this year. But luckily, I’ve been working with them for a couple of years. They’ve been a Xenium client for a really long time. It has been a shift and it has been interesting for me to have a seat at their table and to really be part of their leadership team and have them come to me with questions and how we can help grow their business. They’ve been in business for over 97 years and we’re seeing another huge amount of growth for them.
Brandon Laws: And they never had HR outside of the consulting role with us. I mean they’ve been with us for five years.
Paige Tamlyn: Yes. They’ve been with us for a while but haven’t really had formal HR necessarily. They’ve had some people that have an HR hat on but typically in like a – they have an accounting role most of the time, then doing HR part-time sort of thing. So I am the first like designated HR person for them.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. What’s fascinating I think is there are so many differences between the two types. Like being in-house and being external and having lots of clients. I mean I’m sure the days are different. You mentioned the seat at the table thing. What’s interesting is that I wouldn’t normally think an in-house person would have automatically a seat at the table. I think maybe it’s special in this organization. But for a consultant role, I think because employers are often hiring us to help them with their HR support, we sort of have a seat at the table there.
I’m curious about your in-house experience so far. Do you feel like you have a voice there?
Paige Tamlyn: Absolutely, yeah. They’ve really empowered me to really do what I think is best for them and certainly they even ask me questions of things that are not necessarily HR-related maybe, that are just more business-related. I have a business degree and I think sometimes they value my opinion and other things too. They have empowered me by saying, “Share your opinion. We wanted you here. I want to hear from you.”
So that’s different from being, you know, on the Xenium team where clients are only asking us for opinions on things that they’re asking for.
Brandon Laws: True, yeah. That’s a good point.
Paige Tamlyn: As opposed to just soliciting and just saying, “Hey, open door.”
Brandon Laws: Yeah.
Paige Tamlyn: Give me your feedback with whatever you want and that has been really empowering for me.
Brandon Laws: Yeah, I guess that is the difference. It’s like in an outsource model or external, you’re sort of in and out with a lot of different clients. To have a seat at the table, maybe not so much because you’re not there and the trust is there but maybe it’s just different because you’re just not there all the time.
Paige Tamlyn: Right.
Brandon Laws: So it’s not easy to just like be part of every single leadership and executive meeting whereas you’re in-house, you’re part of that team all the time.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: Has that been a really nice piece, the internal –
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, I think that somewhere in my career that I was interested in exploring and doing more internal HR and feeling like I could make a huge impact somewhere. So being able to do that in a short span of time in two days a week has been really rewarding for me and I don’t know. It’s just an incredible opportunity and I feel like they’ve just – kind of like I said, have empowered me with that opportunity.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. I think what’s fascinating – what I hear because I like to think I have an objective view because I’m a marketing guy inside of an HR company. So I talk to a lot of HR people all day. I interview a lot of them. I imagine like in our external model here, the growth opportunities are crazy because again you’re dealing in rapid fire pace. You work with a lot of different companies and a lot of different situations across different cultures and all that. Everybody has different needs, right?
Whereas like on the internal side, one culture, one team, a set schedule. Maybe you have a seat at the table there – and not everybody probably has that same experience – but things stay relatively the same.
So growth opportunities, I would wonder if you’re limited on the in-house side versus the external. What do you think?
Paige Tamlyn: I would – yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. I think that most HR folks who are looking for growth opportunities actually seek out places like Xenium because we just add an incredible amount of trajectory to your career. So that’s the reason that I’ve also stayed internal. I didn’t want to kind of give up that piece quite yet. I’m only five years into my career. But certainly when I’m there, it’s only things that are coming up that I’m able to deal with and certainly we’ve had our fair share of incidences come up there, and here at Xenium. So I’ve gotten a lot of exposure. But I can’t force something to happen over there just for me to get some exposure to it.
Brandon Laws: That’s a really good point. So you’re sort of dealing with issues as they come in.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: And then on the proactive side, you’re doing what the company wants versus coming at it from an external vendor partner sort of relationship where you’re like, “Hey, knowing what we know, these is the best practice. Here’s what you should do.” In your situation, you kind of have the best of both worlds. But like for most people who are probably in-house listening to this, they’re like, “I’m kind of going against the grain a lot of times where I’m just kind of waiting for shit to break down,” for lack of a better word.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. No, absolutely. Sometimes it’s like that’s where most of your growth is, right? It’s through the struggle. I think most HR people would probably agree with that and business owners as well. It’s like when you’re growing, it gets the growing pains. That’s absolutely what happens. So unless you’re experiencing some sort of new phenomena in your world, you’re probably not going to get that experience. So I do truly have the best of both worlds.
Brandon Laws: So yeah, totally. In the external partner outsource HR sort of model, stuff is being thrown at you. So growth opportunities sort of just land on your plate, whether you want them or not. And it’s most of the time experiential unless you’re going to get credentials, or just going to school, or whatever. In-house, I imagine you intentionally have to look for growth opportunities.
Paige Tamlyn: Absolutely.
Brandon Laws: It has got to come from within, right? Actually, I personally go through this.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, you’re totally experiencing this right now.
Brandon Laws: Besides Julie on my team, there are no other full-time marketers here. So I had to seek external resources to develop myself and it often comes with – the motivation comes from within. So the internal HR, you’re doing that, right? Have you experienced that?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: I mean you have the best of both worlds. So …
Paige Tamlyn: I know. It’s hard –
Brandon Laws: Take your external side off. As an in-house person, would you –?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. As an in-house person, I think there’s a lot of times where they feel like they’re just out there looking for good opportunities and that’s why it’s really important to partner with attorney partners and any other sort of SHRM that works, anything like that, that you can kind of get your hands on. I feel like a lot of internal HR people are just grasping for something just to like keep them going whereas I’m here. Everything is thrown at me usually from just an outside environment. You know, a thing that’s out of my control that I get some extra exposure to or I might still seek out some extra things for me to kind of just boost my own.
I have a really strong interest in project management. So I’m probably going to get project management certified. So there are other things that I’m doing even to kind of go against the grain if you will, from just even a normal HR person if you want to call it that, a normal HR person. But …
Brandon Laws: Yeah, and I think it’s fascinating. As an in-house person, you’re going with the priorities and vision for the management or the ownership of the organization. So if you want a project management certification, maybe that’s – maybe there’s not a lot of projects for you. Maybe it’s – they don’t see it that way.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: So I think for in-house HR people, they probably have to develop partly based on what the organization needs and probably on their desires. Maybe they have to do that on their own. But do you see that being kind of a challenge for growth?
Paige Tamlyn: I think so. Yeah, and every industry has its own set of challenges. So working – the client that I work for is in construction and so we’re seeing a huge dip in skill trade, vocational skills.
Brandon Laws: Wow.
Paige Tamlyn: So it’s really, really hard for me to recruit and that was something that they really needed support with of course. So I’m in this weird spot of trying to desperately find people and unemployment is so low. So it has been a real interesting challenge of trying to get people in the door there. So I’ve been doing a lot of research on how – like interesting ways to recruit in construction and manufacturing because they actually do both.
So I’m broadening my mindset with things like that while I’m there. So I still get stuff here while I’m at Xenium and I’m still trying to grasp —
Brandon Laws: And that’s kind of the fascinating thing. As consultants, we don’t really do a ton of recruiting because our sister company is Express Employment Professionals, an international staffing agency, and they really focus on the recruiting piece. So we don’t really dip our toes into that. Sometimes we will if we have a big client who needs recruiting.
Paige Tamlyn: Especially like executive – if we have clients that look for HR people, we will certainly help kind of manage that. But yeah, as far as traditional recruiting goes, we’re not really doing that at Xenium. We are – if our onsites are doing that, that’s really the only kind of way we’re able to do that because they’re actually part of their business. So that has been a new experience for me. I’ve never done formal recruiting.
Brandon Laws: And for you, you’re like so niched with the construction field too. The labor market is really tight for that. Like where the hell do you even look for skilled labor in that area?
Paige Tamlyn: It’s a challenge. Anybody who knows anybody.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. Any secrets for Paige there, we could like – reach out to us on LinkedIn or something.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, yeah, if you can like comment on this or like send us an email, please let me know.
Brandon Laws: Any tips for listeners on like things you’ve learned in that?
Paige Tamlyn: There are actually a lot of skilled trade and vocational programs in Oregon, is kind of what I’m finding. So a lot of the community colleges have skilled trade programs. That’s kind of where I’m going to be heading and seeing if I can find people there. We have – a large part of our workforce is probably going to be retiring in the next couple of years too. So there’s a lot of skill walking out the door, employees who have been there for 20, 30, 40 years. I’m really nervous about – can I get people in the door? But it’s part of the growth and –
Brandon Laws: Yeah. So you’re definitely looking for people with like – who have been through trade certifications and not necessarily somebody with a psychology degree, right?
Paige Tamlyn: No. That’s the shift that we’re seeing in schooling and stuff right now is that –
Brandon Laws: There’s a lot of labor-intensive jobs out there, very specialized.
Paige Tamlyn: And with premium wages, not how they used to be. A lot of the articles that I’ve been reading are talking about you need to shift the kind of culture perspective of what manual labor can look like. Because there’s kind of this negative stigma about how that can be. So talk about how great your culture is, all the perks and stuff that you offer. Some of the normal stuff you would recruit for but really, we need to get over that stigma of what that industry is like. So it’s a big challenge for everybody.
Brandon Laws: My gosh, we could have an entire podcast just on labor –
Paige Tamlyn: I know. Maybe we will do part two.
Brandon Laws: Part two. I love that because we’re going on a sidebar here. I like it. But we need to get back to you as an internal/external. OK. So I wanted to ask you a couple of things.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: I imagine like being in-house because I experienced this. Again, I’m kind of bringing it back to my own personal – there’s a silo effect to what you’re experiencing. Depending on the size of the organization, when you’re in-house, you have either yourself, you may have a couple of people in the HR space that you can rely on. But imagine you’re by yourself for the most part. What have you experienced so far there? Because you’re the only one of your kind.
Paige Tamlyn: I am the only one of my kind and I sometimes sit in my office and I go, “Ha! What am I going to do today?”
Brandon Laws: Your ivory tower.
Paige Tamlyn: My ivory tower, yeah. I’m sure they probably don’t see it that way.
Brandon Laws: Making orders down to people.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. It’s interesting. I mean it’s certainly – it’s a different pace than what I’m used to and I mean I think that the culture there – because the leadership team is so integrated. I don’t feel quite as siloed as I think a lot of other internal –
Brandon Laws: There’s collaboration between you and the leadership team.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. But I think a lot of other – I can certainly see how other internal HR people, especially if maybe you only have a part-time person that’s on your team or maybe you work in an operations team, as an HR person, I can certainly see how you would feel siloed and I think that’s why it’s really important to be part of groups like the SHRM group.
Brandon Laws: Yeah, local chapters. Yeah.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, getting connected with other HR folks in the Portland area.
Brandon Laws: Hey, we got listeners all over the world.
Paige Tamlyn: This is true. We have clients in like Spain. So we’re all over the place. So come check us out. Add me on LinkedIn. I’m just kidding.
Brandon Laws: Yeah, right. Be careful what you wish for though.
Paige Tamlyn: I know, I know. So I think it’s – yeah. In order to kind of like beat that silo effect, you have to be really strategic about your continued education and all of that stuff because it’s going to make you feel like you’re less siloed. But I certainly feel that I’m not actually siloed.
Brandon Laws: Well, you’re a little unique situation because you have the resources and people you lean on. So that’s the other thing I want to ask was the resources. So I think for a lot of organizations – and I’m just sort of putting words in people’s mouths here. But I just know what I know about the market. I think most organizations think of HR as a call center. That’s just the reality of it. The department of “No,” all that stuff, right? For progressive employers, they think of HR as an investment, an organization, culture development, people development.
Paige Tamlyn: Those are the smart companies.
Brandon Laws: Those are the smart companies. We like to work with people like that.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: So resourcefulness, I think, is – could be a challenge for in-house people who have an employer that maybe don’t think of HR the way we would like them to think about it. What advice would you give people like that where they’re just sort of like handicapped by the ability to have a budget, for one, for either resources, external vendors or partners like us or spending money on initiatives and activities and events and things like that, that might actually enhance the people side of their business? What do you think about that?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: It’s a big question.
Paige Tamlyn: It’s a big question. But it’s an uphill battle and I think that there are still companies that don’t see HR as a true partner and that’s certainly a challenge that people are going to have to overcome. I think one of our colleagues, one of our directors of HR services, she just went to the SHRM conference in Chicago and she was talking about –
Brandon Laws: My cousin.
Paige Tamlyn: Yes, yes, Alishia, name drop. She attended the SHRM conference and they were talking about how HR needs to get back to being more of a business partner.
Brandon Laws: Yeah.
Paige Tamlyn: So businesses can see them truly as somebody who’s not just the finger wagger.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. Was it ever that though? I think it’s going – I think people want –
Paige Tamlyn: I think we started a trend there and then we kind of started to see some interesting changes in the market. So we’ve kind of maybe gone away from that a bit.
Brandon Laws: It’s a good point. More reactive is what you’re saying.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: Well, I think situations like now where there’s the Me Too Movement and all, these are like really negative things that are happening. People are on alert so they’re reactive to whatever is happening. It’s all noise. I mean it’s the reality of like business right now. It’s noise but it’s – it needs to be taken care of. So then it distracts HR from being a true business partner and really just treading water.
Paige Tamlyn: What does your business want? Do they want the transactional support or do they want a true business partner and somebody who can sit next to you and give you strong business advice?
Brandon Laws: Yeah.
Paige Tamlyn: I think one of the biggest things that I came away with from Alishia’s meeting and stuff in Chicago was we need to be bold. We need to be upfront saying what is best for this company and I think that once companies understand that we truly have the best interest of employees and employers at heart, I think that that’s –
Brandon Laws: That’s a – I love that point. That’s a really good point because HR should really work on behalf of both. Not just the employer because then employees are going to be leery. Like there’s Toby from The Office.
Paige Tamlyn: Toby. I have been asked if I was Toby before and I was like, “I am not Toby. I am not the finger wagger.” I am not the finger wagger. I hate that HR has that kind of negative stigma about it, that that’s what we are. I mean certainly that’s a part of my job. I can’t neglect that completely. But I want to be strategic. I want to be able to help businesses grow and they have – the client that I work for has big plans to grow. So I want to be with them, next to them doing that.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. I think that’s fascinating is your unique perspective of being this external partner, but also an onsite HR Generalist. I don’t know what the actual title is. But –
Paige Tamlyn: You got it.
Brandon Laws: Is that right?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, that’s it.
Brandon Laws: So what’s interesting is that you do come at it from a business partner perspective. You came in there maybe doing specific functions, but you have access to a giant team of people who have a lot of knowledge, deal with a lot of different industries and organizations. So you get to tap into that knowledge at any given time.
This is an interesting model. It has been taking off or us. But –
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. We have like what? Over 25 onsites I think.
Brandon Laws: Something that. It fluctuates for sure. But it was a model we just sort of like fell into.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: I think it’s because the best of both worlds is kind of nice.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: It’s like it’s nice to have an in-house HR person because you need the day to day help. It’s a lot of like reactive stuff.
Paige Tamlyn: Somebody that really knows your business, can get in the weeds with things.
Brandon Laws: Yes.
Paige Tamlyn: Can help support you in the things that you need, but still having that back office support and having a team of senior business partners, other business partners, comp specialists, people that are in a wheelhouse that’s completely different from mine, but that I can still tap into when I need to. I think any of our clients that have onsites can totally speak to that. It is the best of both worlds.
Brandon Laws: So the reality for the in-house person is that they get spread so thin, right? If you’re one person – I mean the audience right here, small businesses. So I know lots of listeners, I talk to them on a regular basis via LinkedIn and Instagram and all that. I can picture what they go through on a regular basis. They have a million priorities. We just talked about the reactive stuff. They get sucked into those things, the issues that come up.
But I know that they probably would love to do wage surveys every year and do employment surveys and do fun activities and culture-based things. The reality is they can’t do it all. They have to pick and choose.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. Where do you spend your time and what’s important to you and what’s important to the people who are paying your salary?
Brandon Laws: Yeah.
Paige Tamlyn: So sometimes I think they are really spread thin about what’s important to them. I feel like a lot of our clients come to us with that saying, “We’ve got the day to day stuff down. We need help with comp. We need help with culture work. We need help with …” and all this other kind of tactical stuff we just don’t have time for.
It’s different depending on every business. But I think we’ve been able to do some really, really great work with clients, with projects that they just can’t get to.
Brandon Laws: Absolutely. It’s funny because I was one of those people on the marketing side in-house and I want to do everything. The reality is I only have so much time in the day. I’m no different than that HR person that wants to get to everything. I want to do everything myself. I’m not afraid to admit that. But this year, I finally – I’ve sought some consultant-based people in an agency and sometimes you’re just going to have to wrap somebody from the outside around. And I think that model is probably the best for business.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. Somebody is going to be able to do something better than you might be able to. Once people understand that a bit …
Brandon Laws: I got an ego a little bit. I had to kind of get over that.
Paige Tamlyn: I’m a perfectionist. I like to do everything myself. I totally will try and do everything myself 95 percent of the time. But that other 5 percent of the time, when I don’t have time for something, it’s nice for me to come back and land it with my team and said, “Hey, I need your guys’ help with this,” and it’s like all hands on deck.
Brandon Laws: I think when you finally get over that, it’s – you open the doors for more growth for you and for the business. Ultimately, it’s whatever is best for the business.
Paige Tamlyn: Right.
Brandon Laws: What do you think is best for the business? What’s like that perfect model?
Paige Tamlyn: The perfect model is obviously going to depend on your business.
Brandon Laws: And how big it is, I’m sure.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. I mean the – yeah. The bigger your business is, the more support you need. But I think from what I have seen when Xenium is able to wrap around an internal HR person or somebody who at least has somewhat of an HR function, I think that’s when the most success happens. Because we can support that person and help them kind of deploy whatever it is that we’re working on. I truly feel like that’s the best fit.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. What do you think? Like more of a junior person in house or senior level?
Paige Tamlyn: Depends on the stage of the company. I mean if they’re in super growth wildfire mode –
Brandon Laws: Probably you need somebody senior.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, or you might need a recruiter and somebody maybe who’s more technical. It depends on your culture. It depends on your industry. Yeah. It depends on a lot of things. But I think we’ve supported everything from an HR assistant, just an entry level person up to senior director level people, just based on the work that we’re able to do.
Brandon Laws: So before we bail here, because we’re kind of reaching our time, I want to ask you about the future of HR and what that perfect model is. The reason I ask is because I’ve heard – this is more just industry news. But I’ve been hearing a lot about how HR people are making their way, all the way to that C-suite, right? Some of them are taking over and running businesses.
Our organization is no different. I mean we have Anne Donovan – she grew up through the company in an HR role, VP of HR, then now President, running the company. Some of these HR people out there are having these CEO level positions. Do you think that’s going to become more of a trend because the people side of the business is so vital?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah. I absolutely think that’s a trend. Somebody was just talking to me about an article. It was an airline company who’s – I think it was United.
Brandon Laws: Yeah, there’s only like four of them, right?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah, exactly. I think United is who it was. They’ve been having some issues and been in the news a lot. They actually just promoted their HR person to like a C-suite level person because they understood that they’ve gotten away from their customer experience base and so they needed somebody who understands people, who understands customers, to move up into that role. So they had some sort of customer service HR background. I think that that is really smart. It’s smart.
Brandon Laws: Oh, I think so too. I mean it depends on the industry of course. But when you have an industry like an airline as a prime example, it’s very commoditized and there’s a lot of competitors that do exactly the same thing, right?
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: So your differentiator is you either have like the nicest-looking planes and experience onsite or you have flight attendants and pilots who make it fun and make the experience – even from the very beginning, like buying your ticket all the way through the check-in and on the plane and like how they’re talking to you. Like that always comes down and is rooted in the training, the development, the vision, the culture and that’s all worked at the HR people –
Paige Tamlyn: It’s your employer brand.
Brandon Laws: Yeah.
Paige Tamlyn: What’s your employer brand doing for you to bring in good candidates and good people to practice your culture, your mission, your values and all of that stuff? I think somebody that has been really successful with that is Southwest.
Brandon Laws: Yeah, for sure.
Paige Tamlyn: I mean the YouTube videos you see with people rapping on – I’m like, “That’s genius!” I’m like, “It’s marketing genius. It’s like people genius.” I just – that’s incredible.
Brandon Laws: I love it too. Yeah. OK. So you’re in internal and external roles. What’s the future for you?
Paige Tamlyn: Future for me. That’s a great question.
Brandon Laws: You’re not –
Paige Tamlyn: If I had a crystal ball.
Brandon Laws: What do you like best?
Paige Tamlyn: You know, I do like both. I like the opportunity to be able to kind of practice my craft and get continuing education here at Xenium. But I like making a huge impact out at the client’s. So I kind of foresee myself in this role for a while.
Brandon Laws: Yeah. It’s kind of cool because you do get like ownership over that internal role whereas you can like use the external side, the outsourced, the consultant –
Paige Tamlyn: I use that for training.
Brandon Laws: Training.
Paige Tamlyn: And I can be kind of a control freak when I’m over there because it’s just me.
Brandon Laws: I love it.
Paige Tamlyn: Yeah.
Brandon Laws: I love it. Well, Paige, thanks for coming on the podcast. This was a lot of fun. I enjoyed the discussion.
Paige Tamlyn: Thank you for having me.
Brandon Laws: Keep up the good work.
Paige Tamlyn: Thanks.
Brandon Laws: Good stuff.