Developing Employees with Engaging Micro Learning

Developing Employees with Engaging Micro Learning

Continuous, active employee development is a crucial part of employee retention and success. But in our modern, technology-dominated world, it can be difficult to get employees to engage with outdated, clunky modes of learning. How can we keep people interested when everything else around us (our phones, our email) is so distracting?

Isaac Tolpin, CEO of the microlearning platform ConveYour, is on the podcast this week to talk about how to socialize learning even when it’s online, keep learning programs interesting with gamification, and develop unique approaches to learning, even on a small budget.


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Run Time: 36:33

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Brandon Laws: Hey, Brandon here and welcome back for another episode. Today’s guest. Isaac Tolpin is the co-founder of ConveYour and we have a discussion all about building a corporate professional development program. We really hone in on this concept of micro learning. Because of technology, things are moving so heavily in that direction with micro learning and people quite frankly just don’t have the attention span for long bouts of PowerPoint presentations.

But we basically talk about his version of micro learning and how a corporation or an organization can build out a perfect program and where that’s all heading. So we did get a lot on technology and all sorts of professional development ideas and I think you’re really going to love this episode. It was a really good time with Isaac. So I will step out of the way and here’s the episode with Isaac Tolpin.

Brandon Laws: Hey Isaac. It’s so awesome to have you on the podcast. Welcome.

Isaac Tolpin: Yes. So great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Brandon Laws: Tell me about your background. What does your company do? How did you get into the HR/Tech space?

Isaac Tolpin: Well, It’s interesting as entrepreneurs. People can probably relate to this, how you get into things. But is a micro learning platform and I’ve been an entrepreneur almost my whole life in one way or another. In my younger years, I was in direct sales and managed two states and we were doing 5 million and eventually 10 million a year in my last few years and did some great things there.

I learned a lot from that and one of the things I learned is human behavior and just what is changing with young people, because we were primarily with college students, and help them develop skills for life and all that kind of stuff. Then I built an e-learning agency and learned a ton from that, failed at that and really Stephen Rhyne and I, my business partner, built ConveYour with some of that understanding.

Brandon Laws: Since you’re learning so much in this space, what are you seeing as the biggest flaw with the way organizations are rolling out or creating development programs? Because you’re on the other end of the spectrum with really sophisticated technology, micro learning. We will dive into that. But since you’ve built the tool in your vision, what are you seeing wrong with the way companies are doing it right now?

Isaac Tolpin: Well, it’s funny because they’re not caring about the learner. I mean, they might think they are.

Brandon Laws: That’s a great point, yeah.

Isaac Tolpin: It’s like we’re going down to build it for the customer. In this case, the customer is the learner. I mean that’s the approach we took.

Brandon Laws: That’s a really fascinating point. It’s funny because in the marketing world that I’m in, you basically create everything for your end user. You try to create a great user experience and you basically think about that person wholeheartedly. I mean we create personas and give them a name, you know. Your point about that is so spot-on to me. Companies are really not putting a lot of thought into what – how people probably want to learn. So what have you learned throughout that process about it? How are you going to go through all that?

Isaac Tolpin: Well, I mean I understand the marketing perspective too in our world and it’s like a lot of people will build – let’s just take the marketer for a second. A lot of people will build things for what they’re passionate about delivering to the marketplace. But they’re not discovering first what people want to buy. I think that’s such a good step. But as far as the learner goes, I mean we’re in the YouTube world. I mean it’s just so obvious when we talk about these things.

You’re going to be like, “Man, this is so basic.” But why are people doing it? Companies and information marketers are boring people to death. I mean you might be able to sell something. But getting somebody to come back to your program, if they don’t like the content, is incredibly hard and the same with the employees. I mean they’re so busy, or at least I think they’re busy, and they – getting them back into it, you can’t break learner trust. Learner trust is a really, really big deal and everybody will identify with this as we will talk about it.

But if you break learner trust, they aren’t coming back. I mean just consider them gone. You might be thinking they’re money but you’re not impacting the world with your content and if you’re a boss or an HR person, you might have made them learn the training. But they might be gritting their teeth and they might be deteriorating in their belief in your company as they do it.

Brandon Laws: When you first started ConveYour, you said you worked with a lot of students at the college level – is that what I heard you say?

Isaac Tolpin: Well, I used to be into direct sales prior to ConveYour and my business partner was as well and I just – I led an organization that had – it was Cutco Cutlery, the high end kitchen cutlery.

Brandon Laws: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Isaac Tolpin: So I had two states and we were doing – in my last four years, we did $40 million in combined revenue and just kind of blew up. That’s another story. But what I saw in – and honestly have kids too and been in business – if you just pay attention to the changes, here’s a couple of things. It’s like people’s attention spans are so small.

Brandon Laws: So true.

Isaac Tolpin: It is a video world but you’re not going to retain them with videos longer than four, five minutes. I mean a lesson has got to be micro. Now it doesn’t mean you’re necessarily giving less content overall. There’s always this battle in people’s minds. OK. Well my content is super important. How am I going to deliver my content in four or five-minute videos?

Well, I’m not necessarily saying share less content. I’m saying in a lesson, it has got to be short because there are several – many things that have to happen in the lesson will align with that person and I’m not just talking about young people. This is across the board now as the fastest growing group on Facebook and Instagram are older people, more trained people. So let’s face it. We’re in a new world and we have to adapt to that new world and create micro lessons that adapt to that human behavior.

Brandon Laws: So many things are running through my head right now. But the one thing I have to know, when you really created this micro content platform, did you have the data to really support that, that people actually want it? Did they tell you? Because I feel like – I’ve read the Steve Jobs autobiography and all that where he didn’t have people telling him they want the iPad or they want the iPhone. He really just designed something probably based on data and probably partly on gut and just a good design. Do you have the data? Or are people telling you? How did you realize that this is – the micro content is what people – how people want to learn?

Isaac Tolpin: Well, I think Stephen and I are data-driven. But in the beginning, we were experience-driven.

Brandon Laws: Yeah.

Isaac Tolpin: It was a gut feel. It’s like – I added some new learning agency on the production side of it, building it with celebrity influencers, corporate trainers and so forth and there was no software to pick that really made sense. I’m like looking at this as I got into this world and I’m like, “Why in the world is all this antiquated?”

Like you go through the PC and it kind of works on a mobile device. Are you kidding me? And you’re sending email notifications after people do it about new content. Are you joking? That’s like where guilt is associated with. It’s not simple. They have to log in every time. So some of this is so basic. So at the beginning it was experience-based from learning what people want and now there is a lot of data out there and we have our own data actually.

There was a case study where the same course went through three companies, Marriott, Coke and Capital One. Thirty lessons all under five minutes or experienced them at five minutes. One engagement question, short lesson, talking head video, no special editing in the video and Coke and Marriott got 76 and 77 percent completion of all lessons over 30 days. It was dripped out with a text message notification each day, gamified question, leader board right on the mobile device and then Capital One got 100 percent completion of 38 –

Brandon Laws: Unbelievable. I find that so hard to believe. What do you think the silver bullet is in getting people to 100 percent complete it? That seems hard to believe.

Isaac Tolpin: Well, like you got to have good content. That’s a given, right?

Brandon Laws: But you said a talking head was in it. I mean that’s not that compelling.

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah. I think the value of the content, this talking head video. Video quality, it has got to be good audio and good but it doesn’t – you don’t need high editing anymore. In fact I will tell you that later.

What really matters is this learner trust. So here are the components in these being a lesson. It has got to be mobile first. It has got to be beautiful in mobile. It has got to be a video that’s one to five minutes but no longer. It has to – they have to be able to experience that content. So nobody wants videos just talking at them. You have to give them the experience.

You feel like connected to a group of lessons that has learning outcomes that are very clear and identifiable in the beginning. They have to have gamification that includes social learning. So they’re going through something with other people. They’re getting points and there’s a leader board and it has got to – the whole thing, like they got to learn it. It has got to be valuable. It has to complete and they got to get recognized for it and it has to be on their mobile device all within five to seven minutes. If you accomplish that within five to seven minutes, you have established and maintained learner trust.

If you break learner trust, you will not get them back. I don’t care how great your content is. They will not come back. In fact I would say content is not king anymore or queen, if you would rather. It’s not. How you deliver your content with great content is king or queen. So the delivery matters.

Brandon Laws: So the experience, you’re basically creating the experience across mobile, desktop. Basically you’re meeting users where they’re at, right? Would it be the same experience across all platforms?

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah, because here’s the thing we did and everybody should do this, right? You have to have no login. Well, how do you do that for security? Well, technology nowadays can detect the – when someone joins, there might be an element of logging in right in the beginning. But then it can detect what devices they’re using and remember that. So that’s what we did. We know which device they’re using. So forever more, they don’t have to log in and what they get is a unique learner link that works beautifully and adapts to any device they’re using.

So it’s really device-agnostic. I mean if it’s mobile, it looks amazing. On the computer it looks amazing. An iPad looks amazing and the beauty of this unique learner link is you can send that out however you want.

Right now we’re sending it through text or email if you want because some companies are resistant to text messaging. They’re a little behind. But you can do either and all you’re doing is messaging that there’s new content because one of the things we found is if you give a repository of content somewhere, that’s also difficult for people to digest. They’re not going to go back and go back and go back and digest that. People create these libraries of content and people don’t consume any of that.

So what you really want to do, you can sell subscription content if you’re a marketer, sure, or you can be a company and have your content somewhere, sure. But we should drip out lessons to people on an ongoing basis. So you can’t create a culture of learning or an adoption of your material where people are digesting it and wanting to buy more from you unless there’s an ongoing rhythm of receiving your content and if you rely on them that they get it, they’re not going to finish it.

But if you drip it out through text message and there’s a learner link, back to what I was talking about, where when they click it, it goes right in where they left off and where the new content – they’re going.

Brandon Laws: Fascinating. Do you think the day of in-person workshops and seminars, is that a thing of the past? Because the company I represent, Xenium, we still have in-person workshops that we fill up time and time again with our clients, who are small businesses, medium-sized businesses, who are sending their managers and supervisors to learn.

But, yeah, we have podcasts like this. We have web courses and things of those nature. But I’m really curious what your stance is. For maximizing learning and that experience, does it need to all be online or is there a place for in-person atmospheres?

Isaac Tolpin: Well, I love in-person. I’ve done professional speaking, got paid a lot of money for it and helped people too. There’s nothing better than like live, you know, where you can look people in the eyes and impact them. I love that. So there’s always a place for that. Nothing will ever replace that.

The sad truth is from my own experiences and all my speaker friends that are some of the best speakers in the world, what happens is very few people actually have behavior change after a speech or a workshop unfortunately, very few. More companies do it because they need to. We got to train people and we got to make this event good. So let’s hire the speakers and let’s do this. But the outcomes are very small unfortunately and the best thing to do is the hybrid.

Brandon Laws: Yes, I love that.

Isaac Tolpin: You got to do both.

Brandon Laws: Yeah.

Isaac Tolpin: OK? So you got to reinforce it and the best way to reinforce it is with micro learning because you don’t want to go from live to some stodgy steel training system. What you have to do is go from live to now challenging them with that content you already taught them in bite-sized morsels over time and gamifying it in the leader board to everybody that was there.

Now, you’re experiencing the best of both worlds. So keep the live training going. I’m going to flip that for a second. I once took over an organization in direct sales in my past and it was the best one in the organization, company out of 40 – I was independent but in the company at the same time.

You know, I was wrestling with the – growing this thing and then eventually I just kind of go, “You know what? I have to really think clearly about this and give it my unconditional thinking.” One of the things I did was I got rid of meetings and I cut our meetings down in half to the number of meetings we actually run in a year for the organization.

Brandon Laws: Wow.

Isaac Tolpin: And that wasn’t the key thing for our success. But it didn’t hurt our success and what I did is I made our live things way better. I invested in them and I used technology. I didn’t have ConveYour then. I would have used it. But I used whatever – the best technology I could to make those meetings and after those meetings great. I just think – or leading up to them and I just think let’s make our – let’s put a lot into our live events. But you know what? Meetings are killing corporate culture. They’re killing productivity.

Brandon Laws: For sure. Yeah, they are.

Isaac Tolpin: Stop running so many meetings people

Brandon Laws: I cancel like half my meetings because I’m like – my optimal time for work time is in the morning and I don’t need my first part of the day slammed with meetings and save my productivity time for no – you know, it makes no sense.

Isaac Tolpin: Oh, yeah, and the end of that story is that our organization started doing $10 million a year when the economy was crashing and still – in that space, no one has ever done that. That was just one piece of it. But man, the things we think that we need to do to impact people, sometimes they’re actually hurting what you’re trying to do.

Brandon Laws: So going back to the in-person workshop, I think that – why it’s so successful and why people like it, there’s a social piece to it, right? So with the micro learning, how do you socialize the technology component?

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah. So let’s say – we will talk about during an event. This is fun. So you have your agenda already picked out. You could time when micro lessons are released or right after messaging and then you could have a poll question that asks, “What aspect of that message did you like the best?” So there’s no right or wrong answer and then immediately on their phone, they can see – you can see anonymously in percentages how you answered compared to everybody else there.

Brandon Laws: Wow! How fun.

Isaac Tolpin: So now you get real-time feedback. Speakers are getting real-time feedback and you’re engaging. Or you could do a slider where it’s one to ten. You could actually rate the speakers. I don’t know if you do that right afterwards where everybody can see it.

But you could hide the results and the admins could only see it over the event and you could have everybody rate every message afterwards. You could do open-ended questions. You could do like a collaboration where it’s an open-ended question but everybody can see their answers. Hey, we’re going to do something different during this event. I want everybody to write down your most important point you get out of any message and after every message, we’re going to text you and I want you to put in that most important point and then we will all be able to see it.

I mean you could do all kinds of really engaging things and you could give people points for participating and there’s a leaderboard and then the emcee from stage could give people cool stuff.

Now on the flipside of that, probably even more powerful than during is the reinforcement stuff after that. I would do a 20-day challenge afterwards where every day they get a little morsel reinforcing the things from the event. If you need a little time to launch that, you could launch it seven days later so you can get that together and deploy it based on the content from the events.

Brandon Laws: Those little learning links that – the little morsels you just said that you had sent out to people, do that become noise after a while though? Do people get annoyed that, OK, I’m getting a thousand messages in follow-up to this workshop or this learning piece? Now I’m just getting a bunch of text messages and emails and it’s just – it’s kind of wearing me down. Do you ever hear anything like that?

Isaac Tolpin: I thought I would actually and I don’t. It’s really fascinating. That case study I told you about earlier, Stephen Shapiro – you can look him up, He’s like a 20K per speech kind of guy and he launched this 30-day challenge and when he was first doing that, I was concerned. I said, “Stephen, 30 text messages over 30 days to middle managers of Corporate America. I’m not sure about that.”

He was really adamant about it. He really felt like it was going to work and it totally did. I mean you’re talking about – why did it work? Because it’s like in the great Jim Collins’ book. You can’t just take one piece. I don’t know if everybody is familiar with the Flywheel Concept where if somebody asks you, “What was the key to success?” well, you can’t – there is no one key to success. OK? It’s like right decision after right decision got that flywheel going to success. OK?

So I don’t want people to get this wrong. So we can’t just say, “Oh, text messaging is the answer.” No way. If you just took some text messaging platforms, they’re texting videos out to people, you probably will lose. So there are many things I talked about. You have to have mobile-driven. It has got to be a great experience, got to be content they want. It has got to be reinforcing a great experience that was live.

It has got to – the text message has to be short and it has to have a learner link they don’t log into. It has got to go into this mobile experience. What I’m telling you is we’ve put all the key elements together and you have to have all the key elements. There’s no one thing.

Brandon Laws: So everything you’re saying sounds amazing. It sounds like a Utopian learning environment for me. Myself, I love to learn. I read a ton of books. I listen to a ton of podcasts and to me it seems like for the enterprise level organization, this is easy. They have the resources. They can launch a technology platform like this. They could produce videos. They have trainers and speakers that they can hire to come in and lead these.

But our audience is mostly small and medium-sized organizations. So you’re talking to HR people and sometimes small business owners, leaders listening to this podcast. How do they get started with this mobile-first, text message-based gamification? How do they get started into that stuff?

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah. So we started with the trainers and the people in your audience and the small business people and we have a lot of those customers. They still love our product and use it. It’s as simple as – I mean everything is free at first, right? So you can do your free trial and it’s free for two weeks. Our support will reach out to you. They will even get a call with you for free and help you think about – you’re approaching this thing and you can literally start creating lessons and build – start building your thing.

What I tell people is don’t overthink it. I’m going to give the content creators a couple of pieces of advice here. The more you put into producing your videos, the less likely you’re going to stay relevant.

Brandon Laws: Wow. Really?

Isaac Tolpin: OK? The less likely you’re going to finish your project or even start it. And so what I tell people is – what we’ve done is built a platform where it brings your videos to life. There’s less pressure on your videos because now you can put gamification around the videos. So they’re more feeling like they’re going through an experience with you right there. I’m going to give you guys an example.

When we launched, I put myself under the pressure of two days. Now I know the software. So I don’t know if anybody else could do it in two days. But I did it in a few days. I built in 11 lessons for it, including writing – any writing I did, video creation and putting in the software and launching it and having learners in it. OK? So two days.

There were 11 videos. They were all three to four minutes. It was for business owners and it was building more than a business. Start thinking about your life, not just your business, and make sure there’s a catalyst to both.

What I did is I made it a challenge over 11 days. Text message each day and I got feedback from that that people felt like I was right there coaching them. Literally, it was things I would normally do in a live coaching engagement if someone paid me a lot of money to coach them.

But instead I gave it for free and it was a little experiment because I was curious right in the beginning if these business owners would actually appreciate the points and how they would respond to that. They ate it up. In fact, I didn’t even talk about points in the videos. They got points. Every time they did something, they saw the leader board.

On the fourth day, I invited them. This is relevant to your audience. I invited them to share it with social media and I said, “And by the way, I will give you 1000 extra points just for fun,” and boom, this thing went from – when I just put it out on my Facebook for people to join, I got about 30 business owners to join it.

But then immediately went to 200 within days when that social share hit and we have that component in the software and I just couldn’t believe it. Yeah, they like content but they really were doing it to get higher on the leader board, the name associated with it, and there was no reward. I didn’t even talk about it.

So it’s just powerful to see that. But literally, now video, it has got to be good enough, good audio, good background, but short and you can do talking head videos and I promise you, ConveYour will literally bring those to life where they feel like you’re right there with them, coaching them along.

Brandon Laws: And you recommended no more than what? Four, five minutes?

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah. I wouldn’t do any longer than four or five minutes. If you’re wrestling with that, just turn your 15-minute video – first of all, get out the three minutes of fluff and turn it into a three, four-minute video.

Brandon Laws: So you said each lesson really should have video, probably some text supporting it and then some sort of gamification.

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah.

Brandon Laws: Do you have any quizzes during the same lesson or how does that work?

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah. You have nine different engagement formats with them. You can view what they are, a little image, and you go if you want – you have your video and you go, “Hmm. At this point in the learning experience, do I think they should do a poll or an open-ended question or should I give them a PDF or what should I do with this video?”

You just pick it and you put it with it and you put a little text with it and you grab your YouTube link. It’s that simple or Vimeo link and it embeds it right in. They can’t even tell it’s from YouTube or Vimeo and it just brings it to life.

Brandon Laws: So for organizations who are exploring your tool – and I’m sure you have competitors and maybe we could talk about them in a second – but I’m really curious. For those who are wanting to get started with building a development program and giving something to their employees, how many of them are creating their own content using your platform to create their own content versus farming that out or finding somebody else’s course and then inserting that into their development program? What are you seeing? What works best?

Isaac Tolpin: I think you’re seeing both of those things. I think a lot of companies are farming out. Big companies are farming out a lot of times and putting these voiceover PowerPoint things together that are really –

Brandon Laws: Boring.

Isaac Tolpin: Expensive.

Brandon Laws: And expensive.

Isaac Tolpin: And boring, yeah, and expensive. What I would say to the small business, let’s say you’re just like, man, I keep repeating this process and onboarding –?

Brandon Laws: Yeah, yeah.

Isaac Tolpin: And I just need to replicate this. Or compliance. You have to get this compliance thing under control and I don’t want to bore my employees with that. OK?

Just get your best people. Get a DSLR camera or your new iPhone works beautifully. OK? Get three LED lights and a tripod and make sure you have a cool background. It could be a corner in one of your offices for that matter.

Then shoot videos. Cut them. Do – if you can, do one take. If it’s two, three four-minute videos, you should be able to like do three, four tries and then you can just take one of them and it’s a one-take.

The beautiful part of a one-take is now you can just cut the front and back of it and load it on Vimeo or on YouTube or whatever the company uses and now you have a link you can put an engagement to. So now you’re simplifying this thing and it really should be that simple. That’s literally what I did and people love my videos. I actually used my iPhone 6 at the time.

Brandon Laws: Yeah, they produce some pretty good videos. I use my iPhone 7 for a lot of video that I do here.

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah, and I had a good camera and everything. But I did that on purpose because I don’t want anybody having an excuse. I wanted an example and it works.

You put it together and literally you can start replicating things that you shouldn’t be doing in person because it’s a waste of the employee’s time and you do that. You can put this stuff together super easy.

Here’s what I actually recommend and I’m starting to influence companies to do this. I like influencing. So here’s actually the best practice for a company.

If you want a learning culture, meaning your employees to love learning and constantly growing and becoming more, which is proven to impact employee performance. If you want that, then you can’t create a culture with events. Culture is only created in an organization by something that is putting ongoing positive pressure on them and the only way to do that is by having constant training that never ends.

So what you do is you create a campaign with ConveYour where it drips out two micro lessons a week and all you have to do is stay ahead of that. Now here’s what’s great. Now you just take your camera and your three lights and you take it around the office and you get the best practices for your best performing employees in those areas.

Now you’re creating a learning culture because the heroes are your employees and then other people want to be heroes too and then it just never ends. You’re always creating and sharing best practices and there’s no friction now in the delivery of that.

Brandon Laws: I love that. So if we look at the landscape of the online learning options for somebody who’s really trying to develop internal programs, I mean I’ve see stuff on – there’s, which now I think LinkedIn owns. So you have LinkedIn courses basically. I’ve heard of ConveYour is doing some amazing – you’re disrupting learning and development programs. What are some other tools out there? Is it becoming so noisy? Where should people really start to evaluate what works for them?

Isaac Tolpin: So I think if you’re like an online marketer, Kajabi next seems like they have a solid platform. But they really have the marketing side down, like if you’re an information marketer.

So if someone is an information marketer and they don’t know how to market, that’s a good option because it has a lot of that built in and they have a marketplace. However, our learning experience is far more superior than Kajabi or Teachable. It would be all of our competitors in that aspect.

We don’t have all the marketing mechanisms down but if you’re a little bit of a savvy marketer, you can embed ConveYour into landing pages, forms and you can do everything you need to do.

On the other side of things, we’re talking about Lynda and so forth. You’re talking about basic, basic. What I mean is like just videos playing and the words in front of you and not really gamification and things like that.

So if you’re asking employees to view that, the only problem is you’re asking them to use something that’s a boring experience. If you’re not happy with that, then that’s where you would go, “OK. ConveYour is on to something and I need to start using that.”

But there are some others. I haven’t seen their experiences but there’s like Grovo. You could check out Grovo. And I can’t think of the other names right now but there’s some other micro learning. If you search micro learning on Google, you will find stuff. But nobody – I mean nobody is doing all the aspects and I don’t know anybody that has done learning with –

Brandon Laws: Yeah, I haven’t heard of that at all and it seems like a nice pairing with everything else that you’re talking about too. It’s a constant learning and I feel like those ideas that I mentioned like Lynda and I’ve done some training on my own where I have a budget and I can buy an e-course or something. The thing is, it’s so fragmented. It’s not consistent with what other people in my organization are learning and the experience is all over the place.

So I like your idea of creating a very good user experience for your people and they can continue to learn together. I’m sure that the social aspect of it is probably the best part. Like the gamification, the leader board, all those things that you mentioned, seem to be the – probably that key component.

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah, it’s a big deal. Yeah. You have to have the drive. Again, people want an experience and you’re not going to give them the experience with just videos talking at them. If you try and do that that way, that’s way too much pressure on the content creators whether it’s the HR department or the small business person. I mean if everything involved with the learning experience is in your video editing, then you’re just never going to do it.

Brandon Laws: I think in just hearing you talk, that is the single biggest piece of advice I’ve heard because I’m doing a lot of the editing for some of our web-based courses and it’s funny. I want the videos perfect but I’ve actually gone more on your side of the spectrum which is just get it out there because the other components that support the video are the most important pieces and if I wait for a perfect video, you’re never going to get it done.

Isaac Tolpin: No, no.

Brandon Laws: Well, this is good stuff, Isaac. Honestly, I can nerd out all day long talking about this. I love technology and especially with where it’s taking people. I think we have access to information and I’m so excited for the future.

Where could people learn more about ConveYour? What do you want people to know and how can they learn more about the tool or even test it out?

Isaac Tolpin: Yeah. So There’s a demo right there. You can put your name and cell phone number in, so you can experience getting it all texted to you and going through it on your phone. It’s just a demo course. Really simple. You can play with it. See some of the engagement formats.

Also if you’re an HR person or a small business person with employees, we created the micro learning webinar, like 28 minutes, and it totally educates you. It’s not a sales thing. No selling in it but it’s just value and you will love that. I can give you a link to put in the notes for that. Then if you’re a marketer or something like that, I have a course that I can give for free too for those people.

Brandon Laws: Yeah, I would love to – I will put the link in the show notes. Maybe we can get it offline and pop it in the show notes for those marketers out there that are listening. I think that would be very valuable to them.

Well, Isaac, thank you so much for being part of the podcast. I’m better for it. I know the listeners are going to get a lot. Hopefully they go check out the tool and explore. I think this is going to be the wave of the future for them.

Isaac Tolpin: Awesome, Brandon. So fun to talk with you.

Brandon Laws

As Director of Marketing, Brandon Laws leads all marketing efforts for Xenium, providing oversight on all marketing campaigns, digital marketing strategy, events, sponsorships and public relations. Brandon brings a positive energy to every aspect of his role at Xenium—from internal initiatives around culture and wellness to industry thought leadership through the Xenium podcast and other social efforts. Active within the HR community, he currently volunteers on the board of the Portland Human Resource Management Association as the Director of Marketing & PR.

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