Email has become one of our chief methods of communication in the workplace, yet one of the biggest thorns in our side in terms of productivity. Several companies are experimenting with limiting email usage, or attempting to do away with email altogether. Is this a progressive choice that represents what’s next in the world of work, or would it do more harm than good? Should we view email as either an all or nothing tool, or are there ways to walk the middle line and make changes to our habits to improve our relationship with it? And how could changing our email habits impact our relationships – both personal and professional? Molly Kelley, Senior Human Resource Business Partner at Xenium, talks all things email and productivity and share resources for any employee or business leader to implement in their own work life and organization.

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MP3 File | Run Time: 35:21
 
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Brandon: Welcome to the HR for small businesses podcast, this is your host Brandon Laws. Today I am with Molly Kelley, she is a returning guest and one of my favorite podcast guests at Xenium!
Molly: Oh you flatter me!
Brandon: Molly, you are awesome. Last time we talked about FLSA regulations.
Molly: It doesn’t get more excited than that, does it?
Brandon: It’s pretty exciting! But today we are going to talk about a much lighter topic. We are going to talk about email. There are so many issues with it, from communication to efficiency and just how it’s a distraction. You ran across a really neat article, it’s a very short one from Inc.com.
Could you talk about the headline and then summarize the article for us? It’s very interesting.
Kelley, Molly - circleMolly: So I spotted this and for whatever reason it immediately grabbed my attention. So it’s by Tom Gimbel, and it’s called “What Happens When Your Company Turns Off Email.” So this was through Inc magazine and it’s a wonderful quick look at what can happen when you step away from the email culture that we’re all so tightly embedded in.
The author mentions that for one day, one time a quarter, they have a no email day. Your email stays closed, you pick the phone to talk to contacts, and you get up and walk over to coworkers’ desk to tell them something versus emailing. So it’s one out of 90 days. He points out it’s not that much, and he said that they do give people a 30 minute break in case there’s an urgent client email.
Brandon: So you are not really doing it! That’s sad.
Molly: He said that apparently some people would cheat occasionally. He said that he noticed, and their team has noticed, a really interesting trend. Some of those trends you guys are probably anticipating already, but they have more actual conversations with clients and he noted specifically that they hear the energy in our voices and the enthusiasm our team wants to convey. I think that’s really amazing.
He mentioned more conversations within the office occur and it’s kind of team building when somebody does cheat, there’s a lot of teasing around that and that there is also what he calls a “stepping out of the box moment.” He says that it really makes the team reflect on how dependent upon email they have become and he said that many of their clients love it. They all agree that emails can be misunderstood.
So that was the initial article, and that got me kind of off on this topic so I started researching this. There are so many other articles – Harvard Business Review back on June 8th of 2016, so recently, had an article called “Some Companies Are Banning Email and Getting More Done.”
Brandon: Unreal, I don’t even believe that.
Molly: Yeah, seriously. They have some interesting statistics in here. For instance, this author was David Berkus, and he notes that we send over 108 billion email messages every day, emails take up to 23% of the average employee’s workday, and most employees are sending somewhere around 112 emails every day. That’s not even mentioning what you are receiving!
In this article they actually are citing a very interesting French company called Atos Origin that is a high tech company that has an email ban. It started in 2011 when the CEO of this organization decided in 3 years’ time they were going to ban email. They haven’t completely achieved that, but they reduced email by 60% and interestingly enough Brandon, for my skeptical—
Brandon: I am on the completely skeptical side!
Molly: Yeah, indeed. Well, they haven’t hit their 0% email but they have reduced the email overall by 60% going from an average of 100 emails messages per employees per week to 40. Their operating margin has increased from 6.5% to 7.5% and their earning rose by more than 50% and they are citing this email reduction as part of that.
So there you have it! Harvard Business Review, I would like to see a push back on me, my friend.
Brandon-iconBrandon: Okay, so the first thought I have is, what is the overall goal? Is email making us less efficient? Okay, that’s one side of it. The other side of it would be that our relationships are damaged by all the email. If you look at the spectrum of business over the years, all we had was telephone and face to face, that’s how we communicated. So I get that.
Then you have emails, which make us more efficient at having conversations—sharing files back and forth and sending quick memos. Now we have instant messaging tools like Slack. So what is the alternative to these companies that are banning email? Because you are either going backward to the Stone Age or you are going to force them to use some instant messaging tools to share files. Because I do think email makes us more efficient. It’s more efficient than picking up the phone and making small talk. Sure, you get the voice inflection, you can read emotions and all those things, but from an efficiency standpoint I do think it’s still more efficient than walking to somebody’s desk.
Molly: Well that’s a good point. For Atos, they actually worked to create a social media site so that people can have conversations streaming.
Brandon: And it’s live, and people can see it.
Molly: It’s basically a social network for the entire enterprise, so he notes in here that they organized a network with around 7,500 open communities representing the various projects that require collaboration. So there is a substitute for that in this case and what he was noting was that the difference is that it’s not something pinging your inbox and diverting your attention.
In another article that I found, a researcher notes that they estimate that it takes 64 seconds to get back to work after checking a new message. Other studies have shown that that can add up to a lost hour every day.
Brandon: I 100% agree with that because if you have notifications and you are constantly looking at your email inbox waiting for your next email, it’s going to be hard to bounce back and forth between tasks and just get started all over again. So I think there are ways to become more efficient with using email anyway, maybe by only checking it three times a day or removing notifications. Those sorts of things.
email-1Molly: I might be biased here, and I am fully aware that to a hammer everything that looks like a nail, right? But as a trainer, my thought is, and this is part of why I had this ah-a moment and wanted to share this topic with you, when you think of something that is so intrinsic to how business run everyday, I mean it is like breathing for most of us in most positions. Maybe barring manufacturing, but even many of our leads or supervisors and individual employees are working on email as well even on a manufacturing floor.
So when you think about something that is so basic to business culture, there is next to no training that most people are given on how to construct an email. There are so many people who in my trainings will list off pet peeves around email: run on sentences, no action items, fuzzy, weird, vague subject lines, CCing and BCCing people who have no reason to be on that email, these mass carbon copies, it’s just ridiculous. And yet none of us have been trained on this, and I touch on some of these things in some of the trainings we do, and it’s amazing how vehement people are. They are really passionate about their email pet peeves and yet the person sitting next to them says, “Oh I didn’t know it was offensive to write in all caps. I didn’t know and I never thought about that.”
Brandon: Isn’t that bizarre, Molly? And until you said something, I didn’t really think of it but there’s a wide range of uses for email and people communicate so differently. You are talking about the one person that’s all caps, but some people are really short, some people use tons of emojis and smiley faces and want to bring emotions into the email when you really can’t, and other people just write a novel when picking up the phone might make more sense.
So I think there is a training issue and even if they are trained, they are trained so differently.
Molly: And maybe it’s not even training as much as it’s awareness. I hear from a lot of managers, increasingly right now actually – I don’t know if it’s a trend right now or what’s going on, but a lot of managers are saying, I get emails from my direct reports all the time that have nothing to do with me and I feel like it’s CYA. They’re covering themselves so in case they get in trouble they can show that you were looped in, they can point and say – you knew about this! And the best email Gurus will tell you very consistently, you don’t put someone on the email that doesn’t have an action item. Unless there is something that they really need to know, and you can easily summarize it later for them if it comes up or get together in a face to face meeting. But if there’s not an action item involved in that email for that person, and you are purely just looping them in, really rethink, is this something that they truly would need to be aware of, or can you pass it by and catch up on it later on?
Also we see email abused for the really tough conversations. From an HR perspective, it’s a no-brainer that you never want to have disciplinary conversations purely over email. It’s okay to chase with it, but we see it. We see an email, first time you are aware of it, Brandon, I am concerned about your arrival time at work. It’s the first notice you had of that, and it should never have happened in email, it should always be a face-to-face conversation. Often emails are a great way of kind of documenting on the backend, but unfortunately—
Brandon: Like a summary of what we just talked about.
Molly: Yes, we discussed your arrivals at work and how you have been drifting later. We have got some plans to get that dialed back in. It’s never a first notice and certainly when there is conflict in email that’s the moment to stop. Don’t send a response, pick up the phone. Better yet, give yourself some time to settle down and then pick up the phone or meet with the person in person but email is not a great way to resolve conflicts either.
Brandon: When you do have conflict and it’s the first time that it’s arising, hiding behind email seems to be like the easy way out, but it doesn’t give the person on the receiving end a chance to get an explanation and really ask the questions. So from an emotional standpoint and an overall open communication standpoint, that’s terrible, right?
photo-1461280360983-bd93eaa5051bMolly: One of the things that’s really critical, and I am going to get this statistics wrong, I am not a numbers person other than what I got right in front of me like I have so far today! But there is something like 75%, I believe, of human communication is based on two things – body language or how you are holding yourself and voice inflection or tone of voice.
So when you cut those two pieces out, and you are left with, let’s say, 20%-25% of written words, that is often that we see communication go straight in email where people essentially are reading the same comment, and they are hearing two totally different things. The tone of voice isn’t there, so we are apt to react defensively pretty quickly to something that was meant to be completely innocuous and not an issue.
Brandon: I tend to have that emotional side of me, and if I read an email that’s like that, I take it as, is she mad at me? Like what’s going on? What did I do? But to your point, two people reading the exact same email could interpret it completely differently because the emotion doesn’t come through.
Molly: And you see that, I mean it’s not just you and me that feel that way, Brandon, because you see people basically covering for that deficiency or the lack of purity of the communication without the tone and body language by emoticons. I mean they are everywhere, like every sentence.
Brandon: I was going to ask you about that, like the emoticons and the emojis and all the things that exist now to help bring emotion into text-based communication. Do you think it’s helping?
Molly: I am an over-emoter!
Brandon: Really? It’s funny to me!
Molly: It drives everybody I know crazy because I am usually the three exclamation point, smiley face, cute cat gal, so I am probably an over-user and it’s exactly that because I depend so much on face-to-face communications day to day that email can make me really insecure. And as somebody who comes from a writing background, it takes me forever to craft a difficult email. And difficult for me is typically not the emotionally difficult, I won’t send those via email, but something where I am trying to explain a really complex idea. The rule of thumb is you usually want to your email just fit within one screen, people shouldn’t have to scroll down.
Brandon: In marketing language, “above the fold.”
Molly: Above the fold, exactly. And for me, I am very wordy, what a surprise right here for your listeners!
Brandon: But you are beautiful with your words, it’s so great.
Molly: Well, it just breaks my heart to cut any of them out, so it’s really hard for me to explain complex things or emotional things in email because I second-guess myself all the time. I think a lot of us do, I think it’s a common challenge.
Brandon: One of the things I have been thinking about a lot lately is the fact that our work forces are becoming a lot more remote; so when you don’t have the opportunity to have a face to face, or maybe a phone call is an option, but I’m just going to send an email anyway, do you think for that type of situation email is ever appropriate even in a disciplinary situation or do you think you should always still hop on a phone call or a video conference if you can?
laptop-workMolly: Yeah, I think the wonders of GoToMeeting and Skype these days have really supplanted that. I have had a couple of situations where we have had to do terminations remotely, and it is so awkward. Obviously that’s not something you would ever email, but even in GoToMeetings it’s very uncomfortable just due to some pretty extreme circumstances where we found out something that was really egregious and we just had to terminate at that moment and couldn’t get a manger on the plane fast enough to get there. Typically it’s in situations of violence or theft or really serious issues, but unfortunately that’s one of the most intense conversations you can have, and it needs to happen over GoToMeeting or a cell phone connection versus in person. And in terms of that day to day bounding with the remote team, email is great but a lot of companies, there’s a couple I can think of right now, they really lean on GoToMeeting chat functions so that they can actually see each other throughout the day. They actually will have their monitors up, one monitor is one location, another monitor is another location, and they are chatting back and forth to each other or they just turn around and talk to each other via the GoToMeeting connection. It makes you feel like you are part of the office, so for some cultures that works really well too.
Brandon: Going back to this article about the “no email day,” I don’t know if that’s ever realistic but I think if we can shift over to like a use of GoToMeetings or even instant messaging, like in Skype, where you have the option of an audio conference, video conference, or even just the chat. Just having those tools that are at our disposal, I think that would make us more efficient in some cases, allow us to still bring emotion into the communication. But going back to the time management piece, I still wonder if these things are too distracting. How do you work on a project when you are getting IMed by 4-5 people at once?
Molly: A lot of people I have talked to have shifted away from both having the IM chat function and also from having the email alerts pop-up, so a lot of us have a little bubble from Outlook or whatever it might be that you are using for email that let you know when you have a new email. The experts recommend, get rid of that as fast as you can because that contributes to that diversion of attention. And especially when you’re having heads-down project time, we’ve all gotten used to this everybody is accessible right now culture. If I email you or I text you I am expecting an instant response, and that just isn’t realistic.
Brandon: To me, the best practice would be in 24 hours. Do you agree with that?
Molly: Yeah, I agree. Most of the CEOs and the folks that are kind of dialed in around their time management are typically batching, meaning they are doing their work in certain set amounts of time, so maybe they check their email from 7-8 in the morning, then they commute in and they get settled and they check email again for 15 minutes. Then they are working for a good solid 2-3 hours before they pop back on email around 11:30-12:00, answer emails for maybe an hour, and then pop back off and work on projects. What most of us are doing is bouncing back and forth between email and whatever our main core duties are and a lot of meetings, so you wind up being very scattered.
The number one thing that a job applicant will tell you these days is, I multitask very well.
Brandon: True multitasking isn’t real because you are not giving your 100% of attention in either.
Molly: Exactly. There are times when that can be beneficial, obviously somebody who is at a reception role or a front desk who has to respond to people who are walking in and the phones and email as well as project work – that’s appropriate. But again, to your point, multitasking isn’t the be all end all when we really need to dive deep in projects. A lot of people are, again, turning off that reminder of emails. It’s around communication with your customers and your team that you will unavailable from this time to this time working on a project, if they have an immediate need, please route to so-and-so. Maybe it’s an out-of-office or maybe it’s just training your coworkers that they might need to be on point while you are heads-down.
Brandon: Yeah, it’s interesting what you mentioned about the batching thing. I’ve read two time management books in the last couple of months, and the most recent one was called The Productivity Project, which was pretty interesting. He talks about batching and I just wonder if it’s realistic for the normal person who is serving internal and external customers.
You just said something that was interesting, about training people and how what you mean by that is really just teaching via actions and behaviors. If you are batching at these times people are going to figure out that you only respond during these times and if you need something immediately you need to pick up the phone, send a text message, or walk over to the desk. What do you think from like a cultural standpoint, if you start doing it and everybody starts doing it in the office, what sort of behavioral changes we will happen?
How to Say Anything-1Molly: It kind of goes back to the book that we recently read in our book club, How to Say Anything to Anyone. Essentially the idea is that you are setting expectations in the relationship upfront of how to best work with me, right? I think about my two direct reports that are onsite with clients. I’ve told them, if you have an emergency just text me SOS. I’ll know immediately that I need to call you, I can step out of what I am doing with the only exception being a training, I’d say. But with my newer clients that I take on, I always mention that I am one of the lead trainers for Xenium and I may have 4-hour blocks of time where I am not available, but that’s the beauty of having a team. Within my internal team I think we really train each other that email, cellphone, whatever it takes if there is an emergency but also realizing that my emergency might not be your emergency and that we need to be forgiving a little bit if there is some silence for a couple of hours.
I think most of us will typically have eyes on email every 2 hours or thereabouts and it really is then at that point a triage situation. So really training your coworkers and your clients that if it is something urgent, putting the word “urgent” in the email is really important and then realizing that with some people you are going to have to come back and have a follow-up conversation around what equals urgent. Lost cat, maybe not urgent to some people and maybe very urgent to another, right?
So I think it’s around that conversation from the get-go of saying, here’s how I work and here’s how I am most effective, and especially if you are talking to a client – they love this – here is how I most effective for you. If I need to be heads down working on your handbook, you will know that I need a 2-hour block of time, you are not going to hear from me on other little benefits questions but you can go immediately to the benefits team.
It’s very culturally different. You hit on that point and I wanted to mention that that’s one thing that we see over and over again with new hires is sort of a shock and awe when they come from one company culture to another because company culture varies around email use. There are some companies that email everything, constant back and forth, and there are some companies that barely touch email, everything is in person.
I think really taking a look at your culture if you have a new hire and thinking about how it would be interesting to hear what their take on our culture is around email and then getting that conversation going and maybe thinking about what could we be doing differently like this gentleman did where every 90 days we have a break from email for a day, let’s just try it and see what happens.
Brandon: It’s really tough. It’s funny because, maybe more on the marketing side of the world, we read the marketing articles that say Email is dead or is it dead? The way I always looked at it is because of all the new technologies – social media, Slack and these internal communication tools and whatnot, I keep coming back to asking why email is still so widely used. There are studies that ask if millennials are still using email, and the answer is yes. The reason why is because when you are talking about internal and external communication, everybody is on email. Everybody has to have an email to sign up for Netflix, everybody has to have an email at their work, most people have a Gmail account or Yahoo or whatever. It’s free and when you are talking about some of these other sophisticated communication tools, a lot of the time it’s only internal communication based. That’s why from a marketing standpoint, I am still email-heavy because it’s still an easy way to reach people because they are looking at their email. Versus sending them a text message, maybe that’s just inappropriate still.
phoneMolly: A lot of people feel like that can be very invasive because it’s so immediate and lot of us mix our personal with their work phone, so we’ve got one phone that we are using and therefore a text can come through at 7 o’clock at night when I am at my kid’s soccer game, it can feel very Ugh, I am not comfortable with this.
Brandon: And that so that you bring up like a point, like if you are going to email somebody during off hours, you don’t want to send a text that might be invasive. You get emails at all hours of the day, you might get one at 9pm, 10pm, 1am, the flow of email will constantly be there. So I am skeptical about saying, Could you turn off email for one day. If you want to feel the repercussions of it the next day, then absolutely you could.
Molly: I’ll challenge you on that only to the degree that I actually have a delayed send on my emails.
Brandon: Explain how you do that.
Molly: So, within Outlook at least, I am only familiar with Outlook, you can go in and enable a setting so that when you finish an email and you hit send, it just sits in your outbox. You actually have to go into your outbox and hit “send and receive” to send out all those emails, and I do that on purpose to protect myself because often there is chatter back and forth between the team and whatever I am replying on gets resolved. Also I find that I am notorious for not attaching things, for sending something to the wrong person – which in HR you don’t want to do, that’s a death wish!
It allows me that one final check to make sure that I have replied only to the most recent email, that I am sending to the right people, that I have actually attached things. Often I’ll want to add something in or delete something out based on other thoughts that have gone through my brain between then. And what happens is I am sending 15 emails, let’s say, at a time and it cuts down dramatically on back and forth should I be sending and receiving that entire half hour block. So I am a big believer in that, it works for my job but it may not work for other people’s where there is an immediate need for responsiveness. I think about my payroll team that’s working on payroll deadlines, they have to hear back from a client by 3 o’clock, there has to be a lot of back and forth very urgently. But there are lots of tools, I think the most important message in my mind about people managing their email and not being managed by it is, look at your habits, talk to other folks, there is a tremendous amount of great books that are out there around these topics.
Brandon: And as we are just talking about this, I know you’ve spent a lot of time on refining your email habits, maybe you could talk about a couple of things that you have benefited from and I will do the same because I think both of us read so many things on time-management and all that stuff. So for the listeners, I think they will benefit from it.
Molly: From a storage perspective in terms of folders and getting a system down and then also for a crafting a really powerful email, my go-to is The Hamster Revolution, that’s a great book, it’s very readable and quick. It has a very methodical process for, if you like acronyms, they use the COTA system which is, I believe, Client Output Team and Admin.
They also have another system for crafting a great email, which I’m going to get wrong, but I believe it’s ABC. I think the A stands for opening, so I am not getting it right! Look at me failing right now, yeah the B is like the main components and then C is the closing, so forgive me for butchering that! But anyway, great book, very readable and very helpful in that direction.
Send is another one that’s really good that talks about brevity in emails as well. The tips and tools that I have used from those two books are, again, the delayed send, power drafts – so if you have something that you send over and over again, a parts order or, for me, a request for leave paperwork from the internal team and it needs all these details in it, then create one draft and save it in your drafts folder. Instead of sending it you just save it.
email-3Brandon: In Outlook, there is a function called Quick Parts, it’s essentially the same thing so you can go to the quick parts function and insert it in.
Molly: Oh that’s great. See? I didn’t even know.
Brandon: You just basically build a library of certain types of emails that you use.
Molly: So, I am using the very low tech version by having like all those drafts!
Brandon: You just have a bunch of drafts!
Molly: Yeah, Quick Parts sounds fabulous. So, using the tools as much as you can. And I think people really respond to visually to bullets, so if you have a lengthy email—
Brandon: I so agree with that.
Molly: Bulleting and then, frankly, if it’s a long email that’s going to be below the fold, having an attachment is really critical. Those are my big tips. How about you, Brandon?
Brandon: There are probably three things that come to mind. When you are communicating, the subject line is so important. I can’t tell you how many times when I am on the receiving end and have no idea what I am getting because it’s a forward and the subject line has nothing to do with whether somebody’s asking me something or just doing an FYI. So changing the subject line or, if it’s the 1st email, making it as intuitive as possible. Not “hello” as a subject line, no! “Confirming meeting at 3 pm on Tuesday” would be a good subject line for me.
Molly: Most people don’t know that you can change email type in the emails you receive so they are more searchable, and yeah that’s great.
Brandon: So that’s one. This one is a little tougher for me, but if I can get to a zero inbox that’s, to me, the best situation. You talked about folders, I have the same kind of systems but if I can get basically to where I am only looking at emails one time and I’m doing something with it whether it’s—
Molly: Touch it once.
Brandon: Yeah, exactly. You don’t read it multiple times and say, Eh, I’m going to get to it later and then leave it in the inbox. No, you do something with it, add it to your to-do pile or archive it or respond right then and there.
Molly: Agree.
Brandon: So you are doing something with it and at some point you have a zero inbox, and everything is flagged if you need it.
The last thing, which is the obvious one, is the notifications. Get rid of all notifications. I turned off the ones where the window pops up, I got rid of the ding’s. It’s so distracting and if you’re working on a project where you need heads-down time for a couple hours and you just hear a ding, it’s like the Pavlov’s dog thing! You just start salivating because you are like, Oh I need to respond to this email, it’s insane!
So, to me, if anybody wants to start with something I think getting rid of notifications is the absolute first thing you need to do.
Molly: I thought of another one that I use all the time that I was surprised that some people don’t know about which is, you can drag an email into your calendar and create a task from that! I love that. Like you, my goal in life is a zero inbox. If I know something is going to take more time, I drag it into my calendar for a later time and it has all the details from the email, you have to change the time from the current moment when you drag it in to, let’s say, Friday instead of Wednesday. But it’s a brilliant process and then of course your calendar winds up packed, so you have to actually march through those things but if you honor that timeframe it’s really a great way of keeping lean and mean and having all the details you need when you start that project right at hand.
Brandon: The other thing I noticed and especially on the receiving end, when people are less experienced in email, they will drag on a very easy point forever. They’ll write 2-3 paragraphs to get across a simple point when they could have just cut to the chase, had no little small talk stuff, cut down the smiley faces. I do like having some kind of emotion like an exclamation point, smiley faces are fine, but when you are trying to get across something, writing a novel isn’t helpful because nobody wants to sit there and read it. Just get right to the chase. Bullet points are good, I like that, but probably having some email etiquette training on how to craft the perfect email.
Molly: I agree. A lot of companies are doing book clubs as we are now, so having maybe the whole executive team has the entire company read a book like Send or The Hamster Revolution really could create a culture shift that makes sure that you are lean and mean and efficient and effective. That those emails are not taking away from work life-balance, and which is what usually happens.
Brandon: That’s the thing, and this is why we are talking about this on our HR podcast is because as HR people, I am speaking for the general population of the HR people, but I think that HR people wonder, Why are we not as productive as we could be? And it’s because a lot of us drown in email and we spend 60-70% of our day just sitting there responding to emails. And maybe that makes up the majority of our jobs especially in the white collar business environment, but if there are ways to cut down on those things we can spend more time on creating new things or just working on projects and nailing those things down.
CollaborationMolly: See that’s the beauty of the Brandon-Molly partnership is that you are going for productivity, and my version of HR is, Why are people not happier?
Brandon: That too!
Molly: So for me, I think less email equals more face-to-face conversation and more time for relationships, whether it’s your personal life or your work life. That you have stronger relationships because you are not buried in email.
Brandon: That is a fantastic point, and I think that was the point in this article, the relationship piece. If you have the opportunity to call your client or email them, what do you choose? Most people hide behind email. I am one of those people sometimes, to be honest with you! It’s because there is limited time and it’s quicker to kick out an email than it is to pick a phone because there is so much small talk. But I love hearing somebody’s voice! When people I know call me, they took the time to pick up the phone and call me and I actually picked up – that’s the key to this all, did I actually pick up! I love talking to people, and I feed off that energy and if it’s just email all day, how do you get energy?
Molly: I agree. Well, think about your practices, folks, because I thought these were really interesting articles.
Brandon: Molly, thanks a lot for this awesome discussion, it’s been a lot of fun. Listeners, thank you for joining us for this podcast!
Molly: If you like it, you should email us!
Brandon: No! Don’t do that! Go to iTunes and give us a review. Email, well…hit us up on social media, how about that? Just communicate with us and let us know how we are doing. Give us some topics that you want to hear about in the future and I will get Molly back on and we’ll talk about something else.
Molly: Sounds like a plan!
 


 
 
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