How do you establish yourself as a leader who people want to be around, support, and follow? How do you nourish a thriving, growing, constantly developing culture? Scott Love, author of Why They Follow: How to Lead with Positive Influence joins the podcast for a discussion of his book and how to become the kind of leader no employee ever wants to stop working for. Find out what truly drives people to stay at an organization, an easy development program you can establish for little to know cost at your company, and more!
MP3 File | Run Time: 32:42
Brandon: Hey! Welcome to the HR for Small Business Podcast, I’m your host Brandon Laws. Thanks for all the support lately. Thanks for the download and for your interest in this content. Continue to reach out to us and give us a review on iTunes and let us know how we’re doing. Let us know what you want to hear because this is all about you and we definitely want to know what you want to learn.
In today’s episode, I interview Scott Love. He’s the author of Why They Follow: How to Lead with Positive Influence. Today’s episode is all about how we can create managers and great bosses that nobody ever wants to leave. Scott is a successful entrepreneur, a professional speaker, obviously an author, and is a graduate of the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. I think you’re really going to love this interview with Scott. He’s very sharp and I just love what he had to say about leadership and what it’s all about. So without further ado, here’s the episode with Scott.
Brandon: Hey Scott! It’s great to have you on the podcast. Welcome.
Scott: Hey, thanks Brandon. I’m excited to be here.
Brandon: Me too! So you wrote a book called Why They Follow: How to Lead with Positive Influence and you published that in 2016, if I remember right.
Scott: Yeah, that’s right. A little bit over a year ago.
Brandon: Yeah. Hopefully you’re getting a lot of traction with that book. I had a chance to read it yesterday, loved it. I wanted to ask you what’s different about this book compared to the tens of thousands of leadership-related books that are out there.
Scott: First, thank you. I appreciate that. I wanted to write something that was written with the goal in mind to get people to work harder, stay later, and care more about what they do and maybe I should have titled it How To Get People To Work Harder, Stay Later And Care About What They Do because that’s what the whole goal is! In starting, instead of How do you leave? well, let’s look at why they follow. Let’s look at why people choose to follow and, almost using game theory, let’s hedge our bets. Let’s put our energy into the path that has the highest likelihood of people favorably responding to that and choosing to follow at a higher level, staying later, caring more, and working harder.
I wanted to do something that was written with that perspective because I just haven’t seen that perspective out there. I went through a lot of the old articles that I had written, polished them up, and put them all together into this one singular focus, showing people how to lead, with a positive influence.
Brandon: One of the things I really loved about the way you teed up every chapter is that you always started out with a story and it was usually a story about you and a situation that you had and you really tied it into the concept that you’re trying to get across in the chapter. Why did you write it that way?
Scott: I find that when you can emotionally connect with people, the walls come down. This is something I learned when I first started training as a naval officer, as a leadership trainer years ago after I was on a ship. I was a leadership trainer and my dad was a career trainer in human resources for large corporations and he would always tell me whenever you’re teaching people a class, tell stories. Put them in a childlike stage.
When they’re having fun, they’re more receptive to new ideas, they assimilate that information, they retain it and they execute on that and the goal of any book or any presentation that I give, it’s all about change. How do we get people to change what they’re doing?
So I find if, if I told them these are the 17 steps to follow to become a better leader, they’re going to tune it out. It’s too academic. I’m not an academic. I’m a storyteller. So that’s the way I write, I write to the ear. I use lots of nouns and action verbs and get rid of the to-be verbs just like our 11th grade English teachers taught us, and try to make it really engaging so that people actually learn from it and change from it.
Brandon: One of the things that we’ve done over here as a leadership team at Xenium is we read a book called How to Say Anything to Anyone. I don’t know if you’ve ever read that, it’s by Shari Harley. But one of the concepts in that book was all about setting up expectations upfront so that way it’s really clear as to what both parties are supposed to do. You’ve talked about that in your book a lot. I love that concept. You talked about if you have a verbal contract upfront outlining who does what, how issues that arise, because they inevitably do arise, how they are managed and just how it could be a key ingredient to make sure that everybody totally understands what both sides need to do. What’s the process behind doing something like that, just setting expectations?
Scott: Sure. First, let me go to the premise. The premise is that when people come to work every day, they come to work for themselves. So it’s almost like it’s partnership and if I’m a boss, if I’m a manager, I have employees that work for me, well, they don’t really work for me. They work really for themselves. So that’s the first premise.
Then we also have to look at the emotional equity. What I want my people to do is to work as if they own the place, as if they have those feelings of ownership. So I think when we start with that premise, we can accept the fact. Ok, they come to work for themselves. There’s an amount of energy that they’re going to apply to getting the job done. I want them to expend more energy, more effective energy, more focused and deliberate and intentional energy, to getting the job done. The only way I can do that is by knowing that they’re coming to work for themselves. So as I lead them, as I communicate to them, I communicate to them and speak in terms of their best interest. Now this is a common characteristic between people that lead effectively and people that are effective in sales, is that they learn how to communicate what’s in the prospect’s best interest.
So if I have a team of people I’m leading, that’s the premise first, and then secondly let me set it up. Let me tell you about what our goal here is today. Let me ask you what can you do to accomplish this. Asking people questions, I think it sets it up so that now there’s a sense of emotional equity. They’re going to give answers. If I tell them what to do, and there is a point to do that, but if I tell them, it’s me telling them what to do. If I ask them, they’re going to come up with their own solutions.
So I think by following that set of premises, really, you can have almost an unstructured process. You will come up with a way that’s malleable to get that buy-in if you have those premises. That’s pretty much the way I think, instead of structure, I look at ok, these are the principles and premises that I’m going to follow and I will be able to find a way to get the job done based on that.
Brandon: Another thing I really love about your book, and I think it was just a couple of chapters later, is you talked about work habits and preferences. You talked about asking somebody upfront, how do you best like to be communicated with? Are you a morning person or afternoon person, evening person? What works best for you? I think just understanding your employees and the way they operate, you could be a better leader. What are some other things that you kind of learned throughout that process just by working preferences?
Scott: I think by letting them know that as we proceed to reaching this goal, we need to look for indicators that we’re successfully on the right track. People call them metrics. What are those metrics that we can use to make sure that there are not going to be any problems before it’s too late? Even ask them, What do you think are some of the measurements we can use? What are the metrics that we can follow?
I think also the message, being able to give a clear message, such as this is our organization and this is our set of core values and this is our vision and our mission. Knowing that we do something that benefits a customer or client, whoever it is, something that’s almost a selfless, noble goal, I think that’s really attractive to people. If you can communicate that to them, you’re going to increase the odds of them being a willing participant in the process.
Brandon: Feedback is obviously huge when it comes to developing our people. The words, You’re doing great. Just keep doing exactly what you’re doing, why is that not helpful at all?
Scott: It’s not specific. I think people like to have some sort of specific structure to how they can get better. You’re not giving them any direction. I think people need to have the right kind of feedback. Let’s just say you have someone that isn’t doing well and you need to give them that tough message of constructive criticism. And if constructive criticism really worked, we would all be perfect by now, right? But nobody likes to hear it!
Let me give you a framework for giving that kind of a message to someone. This is something I learned from one of my former mentors Dr. Kim Christian who’s a successful performance psychologist and he says, Take people to the vision of where they can become. I see great things in you. I know that you have the potential to accomplish so much more than what you’re doing. I want to get your permission to share some ideas on how you can improve.
It’s almost like you’re asking for permission to give them that kind of feedback and then you structure it in a way that’s in alignment with what you told them the vision for them is because like I mentioned, when they come to work, they come to work for themselves.
Brandon: When you are consulting with managers and leaders or even in your own one-on-ones, what are some tips and tricks that you have – questions asked during one-on-ones or how to format them? I feel like with one-on-ones, everybody does them so differently and it seems like it’s such a good use of time to focus on development and feedback and just making sure that manager and employer are aligned. What do you suggest?
Scott: I would tell them look at a certain snapshot in time. When I used to do a lot of consulting to people in the recruiting industry, which is one of the purest forms of sales, it’s a sales industry, and you want to have certain periods of time where you have structured meetings. You want to have meetings as a team and then also one on one and when you talk one on one, talk about these three things:
Number one, let’s look at your goals over the next 30 days and then tell me what your greatest achievement for the month was. Then, what was your biggest lesson learned; and giving people a chance to take the mistakes that they made and many times even build training around the mistakes they’ve made.
When everybody is doing well, when they’re closing deals or making sales happen, they’re too busy counting money and popping champagne corks and giving each other high fives. What they’re not doing is asking ourselves, How can we do better? So I think as you have these one-on-ones, bring failure into it. Failure is just a mechanism for getting feedback on how to improve.
If you’ve got the right kind of culture, you could structure it that way. Let’s look at what you’ve done over the last 30 days, what you’re going to do over the next 30 days. Let’s look at your greatest achievements, your big wins and then let’s look at your biggest lessons learned.
Many times if I give a presentation at a conference – and I’ve done this before for some large companies, where I will come into their manager’s meeting and I will talk about a way that you can get solutions from the line level if you’ve got the right sort of culture and you bring people in into these groups of let’s say 6 to 12 employees. Here’s a structured format that you can get problems from the line level and get solutions from their peers where it’s not the manager giving them advice, it’s a peer level group where they’re giving specific recommendations on how to overcome those problems. When you’ve got that type of an environment, it’s electric. Multiple benefits happen. Number one, your people get better because the ideas come from the line level and the recommendations on how to grow come from the line level also, where it really happens.
Secondly, you’re going to see people that are making a contribution. During that small group meeting, they were able to make a contribution that one of their colleagues implemented. That could be the new policy! I feel like I own this place now. I feel like I’ve invested in the emotional equity because I made a contribution that benefited one of my colleagues.
So what you’re doing, you’re increasing the retention. You’re increasing their emotional equity. You’re increasing their loyalty. Another ancillary benefit, when a headhunter calls them because I’ve done a lot of headhunting in my day, someone is going to say, No, I love it here. Why is that? Because I feel like I’m making a difference. That selfless feeling of knowing that I’m making a contribution to other people that benefits them, that’s a powerful emotion. That’s enough of an emotion to keep people from taking meetings with your competitors.
Brandon: You mentioned there are two really important questions that managers need to know the answer to when it comes to every single one of their employees. What are those two questions?
Scott: The first one is, What can I do to help you do your job more effectively? I would say the management by walking around the organization and paying attention and seeing someone there or when you’re doing your one-on-ones or when you’re just in your general meetings, having that general attitude. What is it that I can do to help you with your job, to make your job easier?
The other one is this. An employee comes to you with a problem. You ask them, What do you think we should do? Like I mentioned before, when you tell them – well, that’s their boss telling them what to do. When it’s their idea, it’s their idea. They own it. It’s kind of like my son. I could tell my son, Don’t do that, and he’s not going to listen. He’s 16 years old, but if it’s his idea, that’s good. It’s his.
The overarching theme is that they come to work every day for themselves, we need to give them those feelings of emotional equity, and this was something I noticed when I was 24, when I was doing the leadership training. I started doing organizational development consulting to different navy commands, both military and civil service commands in Norfolk, Virginia.
I got to know some of the managers and the workers of the civil service command pretty well and I saw that they really cared. There was a high degree of that emotional equity like I talked about. What was interesting was that the harder they worked, the more effective they were, the more their pay stayed the same. There was no financial goal. There was no bonus. There was no commission. I thought, What is it that causes somebody to give so much time and to really care? It was because of the impact that they make, that they see helps other people on an emotional level, and also knowing that they had some degree of control over their work. If they had control over how they did the job, the feelings of satisfaction and fulfillment would increase. If all a manager does is focus and ask themselves this question, this is kind of silly, and I will be the first to admit, Brandon, this is kind of a silly way to teach management and leadership. But if the manager’s only question they ask themselves is, How can I increase the positive feelings of people at work every day? If that’s the only thing that they focus on, they’re going to see people that are going to work harder, they’re going to stay later and they’re going to care more about doing their job because we all do things for one reason. It’s because of the emotion.
Brandon: I’m honing in on something you said about how people take ownership over their role but they also know how it ties in with the greater good, right? The purpose of the organization. How do you make sure that you’re explaining the impact that they’re having at the micro level that’s impacting the entire organization? Because it seems like that would be a huge motivator as well. It’s just knowing what kind of work I’m doing and it’s having a huge impact downstream.
Scott: That’s right. I think two things. One of them is to talk about that. Talk about the story, whether it’s the CEO or the mid-level or the junior level manager talking about this is the vision. This is what our company is all about. This is how we impact our customers. And then secondly, to talk about how over here what you did the other day? That’s significant because that helps us accomplish our overarching goal.
For example, the secretary or the receptionist at a company office. That’s the lowest level of the organization, yet that’s the first impressions director and the final memory maker and if someone can tell them what you do, you set the tone for this meeting. When people come to our office, you’re the first person that they see. You’re the last person that they see. You’re the one that creates that positive first impression and you’re the final memory maker. What your work does, it matters.
I think times that you can do this, an effective time is when you have annual meetings, offsite retreats, sales meetings. There’s this one group in Charlotte. I was at their sales meeting in January and it was about a 90-minute recognition session. It was a pretty big group and they brought all their people up and to different groups by their office. There were about four, five people at a time and I noticed nobody was checking their cell phones. I was sitting in the back, because I wasn’t going to go on. But I like to be there early and kind of observe things and nobody is checking their phones as all their colleagues are being recognized.
The executive continued to talk about their company’s mission and talk about the people that they help as he gave them recognition. Once you do, people start believing this. They start understanding that what I do here really makes a difference.
I do a lot of headhunting. I recruit partners for big law firms and I also do a lot of speaking at conferences. What I’ve done over the last 22 years as a headhunter, I’ve had literally tens of thousands of conversations with people, asking them. Here’s an opportunity. No, I’m not interested. Why is that? I love it here. Every time someone would tell me, I’m never going to leave, I would always want to find out why that is. What I found is it’s the relationship between that employee and the boss one level up. It’s never about the CEO. It’s always about that direct report manager, and if a company can strengthen that mid-level to junior level manager’s leadership skills, three things are going to happen. People are going to stay, they’re going to increase their retention. Secondly, they’re going to reduce their turnover and then third, you’re going to create a culture that starts to attract high achievers. Then you have critical mass and momentum and it’s a pretty easy fix. All they have to do is teach that mid to junior level manager how to be a better leader.
Brandon: Let’s talk about that. So if they make such a huge impact and the reason why people may stay or leave, what sort of development do they need?
Scott: I would say a lot of it is having intellectual capital through the form of books. It doesn’t have to be a high dollar consultant. It doesn’t have to be something expensive. But you’ve got to bring in the intellectual capital of how to lead and you can do it through book studies. One suggestion I had given to people – and I’ve seen this be very effective – have the junior level managers facilitate the discussions three chapters at a time each week during the brown bag lunch meeting with the management.
Brandon: I love that.
Scott: Because when you teach something, that’s when you really learn it. And that gives you a chance also to observe who are the next generations of future leaders as we see them in action. You can buy a leadership book for 20 bucks if you want. Give 10 of them to your team. It’s $200 and then over the next six weeks, every week, talk about three chapters. Give specific examples. If you want to get pretty fancy, then say, use one technique from each chapter this week and let’s talk about it next week. I think just by having some sort of structure, having some sort of a goal over the next six weeks, we’re going to do this.
That in itself is enough. A friend of mine, actually one of my clients, from a big company that brought me in to speak at his group. He got his PhD in organizational development. I asked him about his thesis for his dissertation and he said it was on mentorship. He studied the impact that mentorship has in organizations and I asked him, What was the number one thing you remember from that? What was the most impacting or the most surprising aspect of that research that you did? He said the most surprising thing was that it doesn’t matter what you do. As long as you do something, as long as you take some sort of action, you’re going to get a positive improvement. That’s the same thing I would say with developing your leaders. As long as you do something with some sort of structure to it, that’s all you need.
Brandon: I imagine that part of development is just getting experience. But how do you get experience when you sort of don’t have all those leadership skills dialed in? You could read a book. But do you really want to go try that? You may fail. How do we get experience without having a negative impact?
Scott: My first thought is that when you’re a young person, when you’re an early manager, you’re going to make a lot of mistakes. I remember when I was 22, someone said I didn’t have a lot of judgment. Well, that’s because I didn’t have a lot of life experience. The more mistakes you make in life, well, boy, the more judgment you get.
I don’t think that’s something that just academic research will improve. I really think that time and grade has lots to be said for that.
Now, here’s the thing. You know how it is, you probably sat next to someone on an airplane before and it’s a 90-minute flight and by the time the plane lands, you’ve met that person. You’ve chatted up. You feel closer to them than people you went to high school with, right? Well, you’ve gone through all the action steps of building a significant relationship but you’ve done it in a compressed period of time. We can apply that same concept here. If you’ve got a young manager, have them get involved or, if they want to, get involved in other non-profits, other charities, other boards, things like that outside work.
For example, Rotary International. I’m a Rotarian and if somebody wants to develop their leadership skills, get involved in Rotary. There are lots of opportunities to get involved in running a committee, organizing something. If people have had sports or if they’ve had some other experience in school, student council or in government in a college or Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts when they were younger, they’ve actually got some sort of a baseline from which they can make decisions and compare that. They’ve already got some experience with that.
So I think giving people, if it’s a younger person, giving them the experience, but also layering on other areas where they can get experience in leadership at the same time.
Brandon: One of the biggest ah-has I have from your book, you mentioned a story about you went to a restaurant, you had asked for water with no ice, but then you received water with ice from the waiter. You kind of made the point, the waiter probably wasn’t listening to you and then just brought you water with ice because that’s what everybody wants. They made the assumption that this is what you want. But why is that dangerous to assume this is what our employees want? Like just translating it back to leadership.
Scott: Because we all have our own lenses through which we look and my lens is different than your lens and I think knowing that we all have different backgrounds that give us different perspectives and not having any preconceived ideas, not making any judgment, and this is something I think the older you get, the more you realize you don’t have things figured out. I’m always surprised. I’m always surprised by some sort of judgment I make about somebody and I’m totally shocked. So that means we can’t make those judgments about people until we get to know them. We want to find out what’s the best style to lead each person. Each person requires a different degree of attention in terms of how we lead them.
Brandon: You mentioned that relationships require maintenance, right? Just like anything else, like a car. What’s something that leaders can do to make sure that our employees are getting everything that they need and make sure everything is actually going well?
Scott: I think having regular meetings with them, having those conversations that are structured and then even having meetings as a group, like a regular weekly thing, where it’s a check-in, and having some structure to that.
For example, you could have a weekly meeting whether it’s early Monday morning or Friday morning, as long as it’s around the same time of the week, I don’t think it matters when you have it. Just have something at the same time every week and have some structure to that where we talk about these three things. Let’s talk about our objectives for the week and let’s go around in a circle.
If it’s a small group, what are the two or three things you want to accomplish this week? We could use the same format that we did that I talked about earlier. Also share with me your greatest achievement. What was your biggest lesson learned?
Then you could also advise people to bring to our meeting your most pressing, most urgent challenge and they can share that. Have them rank it on a scale of one to ten. Ten meaning it’s most important that you gain resolution on that. Then only deal with the tens. Who has a ten? I’ve got a ten. What’s your issue? Then you can have some structure to how we give some group consulting to our colleague, to give our colleague ideas on how to get some resolution with that, get some solutions.
Brandon: I think one of the things about leadership that’s a lot of the times unknown is how you’re doing as a leader. What do you think, in your mind, is the best way to find out what your employees actually think about how you’re leading?
Scott: I think retention is a key metric. I also think, not just that, but are they referring future employees to the company? People talk, oh, let’s increase our retention. Well, I would focus, if I were you, instead on increasing your loyalty because it’s one thing to have people that are retained within a company that have low performance, low morale, low commitment level. You really don’t want them. You want to increase the skills. You want to keep improving the people that you have.
I would say looking at what are the measurements of somebody’s loyalty. How often do they tell their friends about it? How often do they refer people to your company that get hired? That’s something I would look at. I would say that would be a key metric. Look at the internal referrals for people getting hired within your company. That’s how you’re going to know that people are excited about where they work.
Brandon: I love that because you’ve made it metric-oriented. But is there something you can ask employees, like a 360 review or something that would allow you to kind of see at an individual level what they actually think?
Scott: I think that’s a good idea. I think confidential reviews are helpful. The only thing, though, some people tend to be more vocal than other people. You might have 2 people out of 100 that are much more colorful in their expressions and now you’re going to make a change based on what one person said instead of what most of the group really wants. Some people, they’re just not that vocal.
So I always say you can do that, I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but I really think look at how often your employees are referring their friends to go to work for you.
Brandon: I think it’s actually a very good point because over time, you should have enough data to say, well, we need to change something or actually, everything is going pretty well. We like where the numbers are at.
Scott: That’s right.
Brandon: I wanted to ask you. If you’re a growing, you’re an emerging leader, how do you alter the way people see you? If you want to become a great leader, what are some steps you can take to make sure that you’ve become that leader that you want to be?
Scott: I would first look at the persona. Look at the type of leader that you want to grow into. Identify with that kind of a figure. Read biographies of people that you respect, those people that have those character qualities that you want to emulate and over time you’re going to build that reputation. You’re going to build that personal brand, so to speak.
Two other things I would recommend, which I think are the real fundamental building blocks of positive leadership, number one is getting crystal clear on what your personal core values are. So if you had all the money in the world, all your relationships are perfect, you’ve got all the time in the world, what’s left over? What’s truly important to you in terms of your personal core values?
That might not have anything to do with business. But at the purest level, this is a personal issue here, leadership is. When people say it’s nothing personal, it’s just business, no, that’s not true. It’s all personal because the employees that you have, the feelings that happen at home come with them to work every day. The feelings that occur at work go with them at home every night. They’re the same person 24 hours a day and you need to be sensitive to that. They’re going to pick up on what your core values are and they’re going to choose what their response ratio is in terms of how they’re going to follow based on how you choose to live your life and what their observations are and how you live those core values. You’re going to make decisions and they’re going to see those. They’re going to make a judgment. They’re going to take these memories and they’re going to tuck them away and when you have to give a directive to them that is, what I would call, a big ask, you’re asking them to do something significant. It might reach beyond what you should ask in terms of a commitment. I don’t mean like what’s inappropriate. I mean like we’ve got to ask you to spend the next four weekends here getting this project ready.
You might not have enough of an emotional bank account built with that employee if you don’t have the right sort of core value system. That’s the first thing. I know I’m kind of spending a lot of time going into this, but defining your core value system, that’s a fundamental concept of leadership.
The second is defining your personal mission statement, answering this question. Why are you on this planet? You get crystal clear on your personal mission and what that does, Brandon, it does two things for you. Number one, it increases your confidence because you know exactly who you are and what motivates you and where you’re going in life and then, secondly, it makes you more attractive as a leader.
When people see someone that has a clear sense of who they are and what they follow and what they’re going to respect and honor and they’re making decisions that are congruent with that, they might not agree with you, but they’re going to respect you. This is something I learned early on as a naval officer was that the sailors would test officers and they would put them in compromising situations and try to manipulate them.
Scott: Absolutely. If a sailor manipulated an officer, he wouldn’t respect him and he would know that he can manipulate him in the future. But if an officer said, I’m not going to do that and this is why, they would hold that officer in a higher level of regard and they would respect that officer. They might not like it, but they’re going to respect him and they’re going to know that they can trust him.
I think it’s the same way in the business world, in the corporate world. We’re all in observation 24 hours a day and people never stop looking at us as leaders. They’re always making judgments about us in the future based on how they’ve observed us in the past. If there’s any act of incongruence between our core values and what we actually do, they’re going to pick up on that and they’re going to remember that. When it comes time for them to give a response to a directive that you gave them, it’s not going to be a maximum effort. They’re going to do the minimum, because that’s just how people are.
Brandon: You titled your book Why They Follow. When you finally finished this book and kind of looked at the work that you had done, do you feel like you answered that question? Is there one thing or a couple of things as to why people follow?
Scott: I would say this. They’re going to do what’s in their own best interests. They come to work for themselves every day. Not for us. We might think we’ve got this great company or this great business or this great healthcare system or whatever. But when they come to work, they come to work for themselves. That’s the number one concept.
I think the second one – and I talk about this early on in the book – is the response ratio. When we give a directive to someone, they’re going to choose at what level they’re going to respond. Ten meaning they’re going to give their heart and their soul. They choose. They can also give a one or a two. I’m just going to do the minimum because I don’t respect my boss. But I’m still going to get the job done but I’m going to do it with the, Well, how do you like me now? attitude. I’m going to do the minimum.
So I think those would be the two concepts I would want people to take away from the book. If they just focus on those two concepts, I think they’re going to see a big improvement in how people respond to their leadership.
Brandon: Well, good stuff, Scott. I appreciate it. Anything you want to tell listeners in parting? Anything about your book, about what you’re doing, website, anything that you want to drive people to?
Scott: I do a lot of keynote speaking. I don’t do any consulting right now, but I love to speak at sales meetings, at company retreats. You can reach me at ScottLove.com. I’ve got some articles and some other resources there and it has a link to the book on Amazon also.
Brandon: Scott Love, thanks for being a part of the podcast. Appreciate it.
Scott: Yeah, thank you Brandon. Thanks so much.